Real advice from bad SEOs
Posted by Michael Martinez on March 24, 2008 in Search Engine Optimization
Maybe I should call this post “bad advice from real SEOs” but I think it’s better to emphasize the fact that it’s real advice being offered by people in the SEO community.
When I wrote about Google’s March 2008 Update (and I use the term “update” loosely as only an SEO knows how), I was only acknowledging that a phenomenon which had already impacted many other people had crept into my own optimized world.
People have been reporting problems with Google listings continuously for years. You only get a sense of when something major is going on by comparing the level of complaints and questions in SEO blogs and forums to their historical patterns. When you see a significant increase in “screaming” in multiple discussion groups that’s a pretty good sign that something is going on.
Early March 2008 saw such a rise and the screaming has continued to increase since I wrote my post. This weekend I decided to scan the more popular SEO forums (and Google Groups) again to see if there are new screams or if people are starting to see the changes I predicted would happen. For my part, I’m seeing some indication that we may be approaching the end of the long, dark tunnel but I don’t yet have enough information to be sure. (NOTE: So far, I have found two discussions where Googlers have supposedly indicated that people just need to wait a few more days, but don’t hold me to that.)
Just scanning the discussions I could not help but notice just how much bad advice is being given out to people who either cannot launch new domains (one guy with 4,000 pages only got 17 of them indexed within a week) or their old, long-existing sites have suddenly loss rankings or simply dropped out of the index altogether.
In any search engine’s day, Webmasters are constantly doing dumb things with their Web sites and the most common reason for lost search visibility is making changes on the Web site. Most people who ask for help in SEO forums usually are reluctant to admit that they changed their CSS, modified one obscure (but critical) file, revised their site structure, removed thousands of pages and put up thousands of new pages on different URLs, etc.
Complainers’ point of view: It’s always Google’s fault that your site lost its search visibility.
I see that quite a few forum moderators are pretty good at running down the list of possible dumb things people could have done to themselves, and that’s a good thing. And there is also a growing list of things beyond your control that can affect your search visibility that many mods also suggest: maybe your ISP has a DNS issue, maybe the search engine has a DNS issue, maybe the sites you have links from have problems, etc.
Nonetheless, when you see enough discussions where these plausible reasons for lost visibility don’t really address the issue you have to look at whether the search engine may be making changes. It always helps to have one or more of your own sites be affected by the phenomenon because then you can run down the checklist yourself.
There is, in my opinion, enough consensus of pain among people asking for help in SEO forums for us to be reasonably sure that Google changed something or broke something or is changing or breaking something. I can guess wildly at what may be going on but that’s not the point of this post.
Instead, I want to focus on the dumb things people are suggesting in SEO forums right now when people come screaming about lost visibility. Generally speaking, most people assume the problem is with backlinks. That kind of limited thinking emerges from the very narrow-minded approach that most people in the SEO community take toward search engine optimization.
Links aren’t everything, they aren’t most of everything, and they are rarely responsible for a rising crescendo of complaints in SEO forums. The very fact that people just whip out the standard “get links from this place” advice in response to complaints and pleas for help indicates that most SEO forum participants don’t bother to check their facts, don’t look at other forums to see if other people are reporting problems, and don’t know what they are doing.
Typical suggestions in one of the most popular forums included:
- Drop links in forums
- Drop links in blog comments
- Distribute articles with links (to article archives)
- Join a link exchange program
- Don’t create a site where your pages are more than 3 clicks from the root URL
- Submit links to directories
- Put links in CSS galleries
- Get links from social media sites
- Use “nofollow” to promote your most important pages
Every one of these suggestions is bad SEO advice. It’s amateurish, it’s ill-informed, and I wouldn’t hire anyone who admitted to me they had given out such advice in the past three to six months.
Social media has its place for building traffic but if you haven’t caught on to the fact that social media profile pages start out with no PageRank and the fact that a growing number of social media services are embedding nofollow attributes in their links, you should give serious consideration to getting out of the SEO industry before someone catches on to the fact you don’t know what you’re doing.
Social media link building is a complete waste of time from a search engine optimization point of view. Even if you know of social media sites that haven’t yet implemented nofollow you don’t know how long that gravy will continue to taste good. Google is chasing your sorry social media linking profile and you need a better plan than that.
If you want some quick traffic and don’t mind getting banned for abusing the services, hit the social media circuit and drop your spammy Web site announcements on all the popular SEO social media sites. Plenty of people are still Link Faking their Bait that way. But stop pretending that this is search engine optimization. It’s not.
Just doing something because idiots in an SEO forum tell you to do that is the worst possible thing you can do for search engine optimization. If you don’t understand what the risks and benefits are you don’t need to stick your neck out. Terrible things can happen to people who practice SEO-by-the-bad-advice-numbers. Terrible!
What’s the best thing you can do when a search engine appears to have gone on hiatus? Take a break. Or run down the technical checklist and see if maybe you tripped over your server’s power chord. It’s always a good idea to run down that technical checklist every few months, just to make sure nothing awkward has developed by accident.
I’m waiting the storm out. I’ve checked my technical lists. I’m not making radical changes or assuming I’ve done something to merit any penalties or bans.
Nor am I wasting my time looking for answers in Google Webmaster Central because there is never any help there for a situation like this.
There are things I can do right now to take advantage of new query opportunities and of course I am moving ahead with such projects. But I’m not trying to fix any problems that haven’t presented themselves. When a lot of people say a search engine has suddenly dropped their pages or changed the SERPs, that’s a pretty good sign that the problem is with the search engine and not with the Web sites.
Of course, some people are guessing there is a new penalty or filter at work. Maybe, but if that’s the case we have yet to see any evidence of such a penalty or filter. Sometimes the new filters take out innocent content and they need to be adjusted but it doesn’t look to me like Google is owning up to making any changes. They have, on some occasions in the past, stepped forward to admit that something didn’t work out as planned.
So whatever is happening at Google either hasn’t been resolved or else it’s a case of a rare planetary misalignment that has simply affected the shape of the universe. We’ll eventually see the distortion go away either because Google does something or because all the people with problems will eventually get tired of waiting for a fix and they’ll do something that actually works.
That’s the nature of the beast. No one really knows what happened. But I’ve seen becalmed periods like this before and I expect to see them again. Eventually the wind will pick up and we’ll have smooth sailing again.
Until then, be very suspicious about any advice you see in SEO forums, especially if it has less to do with checking your technical issues and more to do with where to get links. Remember: If everyone knows the secret formula to success, it’s not a secret and not likely to be helpful in building success.
10 Comments on Real advice from bad SEOs
By SEOHolicc on March 24, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Great post. I rarely visit forums anymore because of the poor advice often given.
By joepreston on March 24, 2008 at 7:45 pm
an excellent post — Google’s opacity about updates is and always has been stupid and counter-productive, It’s really hard to fathom why Google treats their most ardent followers, internet marketers and seos with such disdain. They’ve improved a great deal over the last 3 years or so, and they are still terrible. The utter nonsense of the reconsideration request nee reinclusion request, which has all the effect of a letter to Santa unless Matt Cutts knows its coming, and my take on that is that you need to get your problem in his feed reader for him to know it is coming. OK, mini-rant over. SEO forums, to which I am deeply grateful, have been out of my life for a long time,and the honeymoon ended when it took 6 months to reach a consensus that the Sandbox existed, which any idiot could see if they actually looked, mainly due to the pointless and obstructionist contributions of big sections of the SEO community. Speaking of, can we get a spider-food update?
By Michael Martinez on March 24, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Spider-food is still on hiatus because I’ve been buried both at work and at home. I’ll try to connect with J.K. Bowman again this week. Sorry.
By Thomas Schmitz on March 25, 2008 at 11:21 am
If you only get links from open directories, CSS galleries, social media profiles and other places that hand out generous quantities of free links, then Google may be seeing that all of your links are from low quality web pages. If you only go for large quantities of links via baiting then Google may see that too, because such links tend to come in spikes and from low quality sites. So yes, if you only grab the low hanging fruit or only set-off atomic bombs then Google may recognize your pattern.
What I think you are missing is what many successful bloggers have done. They plant seeds with the social media profile links to get some initial traffic and link equity. Not much, just a little, enough to get started. They use link baiting articles to attract attention and to build their readership. They then use their new found reputation to network with established bloggers and content authors who can publish quality links. By working the steps and connecting the dots they make friends and build quality link profiles that will move their websites upward.
That’s not just for blogs either. Any website can start small and work itself into a force to be recognized. It all depends on how much thinking, planning and work you are willing to invest.
Michael, how would you conduct an offsite SEO campaign. That’s “how would you?” not “would you?” I’m pretty sure I already know how you feel about offsite SEO.
- What steps would you take?
- What type of websites would you target?
- What strategies would you use to attract those links?
By Michael Martinez on March 25, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Actually, I do off site SEO all the time. I mentioned off site SEO in my 20 hard core SEO tips article last year.
I just don’t believe in resorting to all the usual SEO linking strategies. That’s so unnecessary, in my opinion.
By incrediblehelp on March 25, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I think what Michael is saying is don’t rely on your social media profile pages to help you or the link directly on the social media pages themselves. most have nofollow or other forms of tracking.
Myself I see social media ass an indirect help to your websites overall marketing goals. Offering social media buttons on your content can only help “get the word out” about your content which can lead to bookmarking of your web page/website, subscribing to your RSS feed or adding a back link to your blog from theirs.
By losangelesinternetmarketing on March 25, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Hmm… is the post above about misusing above methods and strategies? Are you saying none work? That it’s just about on-site optimization? Quality first?
I believe I add value to the websites / forums that I frequent and comment on. I also know that I get search engine credit for that as well - and that sometimes I get no credit. Many of my profiles on different sites are a PR of 3-4, which definitely helps -and there are no nofollow tags. (I know that it’s not all about page rank, but page rank is an indicator nonetheless.)
By Michael Martinez on March 26, 2008 at 3:51 pm
losangelesinternetmarketing: “Hmm… is the post above about misusing above methods and strategies? Are you saying none work? ”
Michael: No, it’s about the constant chirping from the parrots in the industry who don’t stop to gather information before offering advice.
As far as social media profile links go, they are another example of the crowd following after voices in the dark. You can get good link value from a social media profile page if you pump value into it. But if people just run around the Web filling out profile forms they are pretty much wasting their time.
By Ellen Brundige on April 23, 2008 at 9:37 am
I’ve been scrabbling at the corners of your blog lately trying to unlearn the bad habits it’s so easy to pick up when a beginner who is NOT in the business of SEO starts getting inundated with advice like “Stumble your site!” and “put your link in your forum signature!” and all that. I have one of those Blind Leading the Blind webpages with my Top Ten Tips for Getting Your Site Found, and after reading this post, I feel like I should just shred it and hide it in a dark hole.
I’d like to get past the chagrin stage and have a better sense of what I’m doing. Also, I need to be careful not to make an ass of myself. I participate in a forum where SEO advice — usually of the “submit it to social media sites!” and “put a link in your signature!” sort — is dispensed nearly daily to newbies asking how to get more traffic. I fear I’m starting to turn into a reverse parrot, and have almost caught myself typing, “Michael Martinez says social bookmarking doesn’t work.” But of course, that’s not what you’re saying.
Hm. Let me work this around to a question. IF you were participating in Random Forum for Marmoset Website Webmasters, and Noob X says, “How do I get more traffic to my site?!” and Helpful Member Y says, “Stumble it! Digg it! Make a profile on Facebook! Put a link in your signature!” and all the other social media networking clichés — how would you respond to be helpful to both parties, and not just a petty net bore playing the “gotcha!” game? Or would you just let them find out (or never find out) through trial and error?
By Michael Martinez on April 23, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Ellen, social bookmarking works just fine. This blog, in fact, gets a lot of traffic from StumbleUpon and even a fair amount from Sphinn. But I neither Stumble nor Sphinn (in fact, I don’t even have a Sphinn account and I’ve forbidden my staff from using their personal accounts to drop links for this blog).
SEO advice is bad when it is based on nothing more than the Parrot Effect. A lot of today’s bad SEO advice was once yesterday’s good SEO advice, and at any time a lot of good SEO advice is based on guesswork and incomplete experimentation. As long as people disclaim what they are saying and try to offer pros and cons, I think most typical SEO advice is harmless and may even be helpful.
What I would tell anyone seeking more traffic is what I have told people for years and what I have practiced for years: create content that people are interested in and put it where they will find it.
It’s easy to build blog traffic as long as you ping blog search services. People are constantly visiting this blog, for example, from off-the-wall blog search services I never heard of before I launched SEO Theory (and I’ve been blogging since 2005 and watching server referrals for even longer).
It really is almost as simple as “build it and they will come” so long as whatever you build is worth coming to and is visible.
I did leverage a very small number of resources to help promote this blog in the beginning. For example, I posted updated on Spider-Food’s forums (which are still on hiatus because I’m too busy to take that site on). Spider-Food has been around for years but it suffers under an inexplicable Google penalty, so it’s a pointless waste of time for people to drop links there unless they really do want traffic. A fair number of readers thus find this blog through Spider-Food.
But for someone just starting out, who has no Web friendships or resources to leverage, I always advise them to take the low-key, subtle approach of creating content, not links. The links come if the content is worthwhile. If it’s not worth linking to it’s not worth creating, in my opinion. And people tend to be very generous with their links. I’ve never had to write award-winning prose to obtain a lot of inbound links (although I believe this blog was nominated for an award, I’m not aware of actually having won any so far).
In my opinion, if you’re going to participate in social media, you should do so to help other people find good resources. They’ll appreciate what you do often enough to look at your profile and follow your link home. After that point, your good content should earn its own links.
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